Circuit Kings Chopped Pot Debacle, Postle Spotted, Kaplan Retires & More! – DAT Poker Pod Ep #137

0:00 goes beyond $50M on perpetuity list & WSOP look ahead
14:35 Daniel goes to Calgary
20: 30 Season 10! Gabe Kaplan retires.
28:00 Player Eliminated On a Chop at WSOPC Rozvadov
46:00 Paulina "PokerBunny" PCA Card Mucking Conversation
1:04:25 Henry K vs Josh Arieh Twitter Spat

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Circuit Kings Chopped Pot Debacle, Postle Spotted, Kaplan Retires & More! – DAT Pod Ep #137

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34 Comments

    1. Even the nfl has NY to call in and make a ruling however … when the next play/hand is started then that’s its . The dealer should be reprimanded in some way for sure . BUT it’s also the players in the hands responsibly to pay attention , I’ve watch tons of people muck their hands into the dealer pile and then try to get them back after they realized they shoulda won, personally when their is money on the table pay attention.

  1. Total buy-ins won sounds fantastic and should be the standard – that would be an amazing stat to see.

    edit: even seeing breakdowns of tournament buy-ins: $1,000-$9,999, $10,000-$25,000, etc. would be amazing.

  2. They should introduce a 2 minute chess timer but for poker. The entire hand, you get 2 minutes. If you act quickly in the first part of the hand, you get more time in the later half. Thereby discouraging balanced tank time.

    1. @SigmaGhostZero 10s is too fast; this isn’t online poker and sometimes you need to check chip counts, etc. You don’t want to rush older/weaker players and turn them off.

    2. @ZACHARY EHRENREICH actually, you make a good point and yeh i agree with that come to think of it, my suggestion was a bit hasty. All the best.

  3. Good job. I agree with most positions taken by most of you in this one.

    I was only surprised by Daniel not viewing the prevention/correction of dealer errors, as being an obligation of every player, in every game. That implies to me that he’s been playing dumb, pretending he didn’t notice things, rather than protecting the game, all these decades. I’m honestly shocked that he’d place personal EV over that, especially when it’s really neutral EV if even 20% of players are paying attention and following that basic rule and personal value. I will always speak up, and if the dealer disagrees or takes offense, I’ll call the floor immediately and do what I can to keep the dealer from doing anything irreversible until the floor decides the issue. I can’t recall any incident where less than 2/3 of the players supported me in that, whether or not they’d noticed anything amiss. In fact, it’s unusual for even the person about to “lose” the windfall of an unearned pot, to object.

    On the opposite side of the coin, I’ve seen atrocious misapplications of that, which violated the “one player to a hand” rule, where someone shows their cards to the player next to them, goes to muck, and the player they showed yells “Don’t muck it, you win, show it!” or something like that.

    So, regarding intervening when a pot would be pushed to the wrong player, I’m only talking about properly tabled hands, not hands which were merely flashed/shown to someone or even to the whole table.

    There are other times to speak up also, like when action is not complete and a dealer thinks it is, and starts putting a burn card down. “Stop” or “Wait” and putting your hand up like a traffic cop, is needed quickly, to avoid the old “natural river will come out on the turn, and the misdealt card will be shuffled into the stub so it might come out on the river” scenario we’ve all seen too many times.

  4. Some final tables in big events have the TD on a microphone calling The action to the crowd describing what is happening, who is at risk and the cards being dealt. You see this also when a tournament is on the bubble and the action of all-in players is played on speakers. He’ll say “so and so is at risk and he needs to hit king to survive….” Etc.

  5. Wow. Hard L for Daniel in this one. He’s borderlining advocating for cheating. Integrity means nothing to him, I guess. His arguments are trash, too… I hope someone someone holds his feet to the fire on these topics.

  6. The right thing is somehow compensating the guy with a little something in the form of an apology or buyin. Whatever. But players are there to play. The dealer and directors are there to monitor the game. They are literally being paid to do that. So some type of compensation is owed imo.

  7. Yo me: the bottom line rule is “The cards speak for themselves.” The dealer is ruling body at the table so the dealer screwed up…PERIOD!

    1. In the big scheme of things YOU are responsible for YOU and YOURS ONLY! Yeah the dealer screwed up but the guy screwed up even more by misreading his own hand. He walked away…..how is THAT the dealers fault? When I play I don’t give a flying F what ANY dealer says, if I know I’m right about something that affects me I stop the play at the table – by any means necessary – until they get the floor over there to review the film if necessary. I have NEVER been wrong when speaking for myself and protecting MY OWN interests at the table. If I missed something then that’s 100% on me, not anybody else.

  8. What? Is it just me or is it crazy how Dnegs thinks? I don’t understand his reasoning since there’s always “unfair imbalance” amongst any poker table, cash or tourneys. One of MANY examples would be the dealers. You can have a dealer that makes mistakes more frequent than others, not getting as many hands per hour while another table has a dealer whos significantly better all around. It happens literally all the time. Also his argument doesn’t make sense to me because it can be applied both ways, why not apply it for the greater good of the game rather than encourage foul play? Its not good for poker in the long run either. Protecting the integrity of the game should be a top priority for us as the players. Merely saying “its not their responsibility” is a lazy way to ignore it. There’s several inherited responsibilities in different aspects of life, and in a game like poker where integrity is arguably the biggest part, its no different. It should NOT have to be “written” down somewhere to be expected. As a huge ambassador for the game, I’m truly shocked on his point of view. I don’t think he’s viewing it from a malicious or greedy intent, however I also don’t understand how he doesn’t understand this concept. It may be, that DNegs is slightly out of touch with the reality of poker and where the vast majority of it is played, low stakes games. He’s use to playing with top pros and killers, who are constantly looking for their next edge. But this is still a hard excuse to find for him because I know he’s advocated several times in the past being against this type of behavior specifically because its bad for the game. Things like wearing sunglasses and acting like a GTO robot or the stereotypical European style of play. Do you think an amature wants to come back to the game after experiencing that? Players should feel safe flipping their cards over and them being read by the dealer, its always been part of their job and besides that its arguably better for the game, especially new players. Now, if he wants to make an argument for the elites and top pro games to have different rules where players are more solely responsibly to read their hands, I may be able to get behind that. However, again this is way out of touch with the reality of where the vast majority of poker is played and new players come in.

    And his whole bit on collusion seems a bit off to me as well. In general, if there’s more ways to cheat, players who want to cheat will use them. Giving them more tools is not in the best interest of the game. That being said, I do agree more with his argument about the “all in rule” being less effective to stop collusion than some make it out. However, I don’t think anyone argues that it “STOPS collusion” 100%, nothing does. Rather they will say it “helps” prevent it. And while I think it could be argued on whether it helps or not, regardless of that rule, my disagreement lies more with how DNegs presents it and his take on how to stop collusion in general. It feels like he’s almost suggesting certain actions are pointless to help stop collusion simply because a cheater is going to cheat if they want to. I could be wrong about this, but it was the vibe I got when he spoke about it. This does bring me back full circle to why speaking up when a dealer error presents itself. This opens the door to cheating or similar versions of it. Its a simple and morally right thing to do that everyone at the table should do. Not saying its going to fix or put a stop to it 100%, nor am I suggesting a penalty for those who don’t do it. But we should advocate for it 100%, especially a big voice like DNegs. Its an overall positive gain for poker as a whole too. “Cheating” or being “cheated” doesn’t need to be in the form of millions of dollars (although it could be). A dealer and player could have an invested interest in each other for what ever reason, being small or large. Or if a dealer simply doesn’t like a player and lets a player put in the wrong amount of chips or counts extra from another chip stack for them to call. We shouldn’t allow that much power to fall in the hands of one person. These are checks and balances. Players should and do have an inherited responsibility at the table to help police it, to an extent. IMO.

  9. 41:53 This seems like a hot take. I’m curious what the majority of players think about it. I feel like there’s plenty of arguments against.

    The tables are still under the same rules, having extra help from the floor or players to enforce the rules when needed, is not the same thing as having different rules. Lets take this for example: A better dealer is on one table while the other dealer makes more mistakes and is slower. Is it not fair or unbalanced to have a dealer make more mistakes? I’d rather be on the table with the better dealer. Dnegs has actually made a better argument for why players should be speaking up and helping police and “protect” the rules of the game rather than let it all fall on the dealer. It gets us closer to a more fair and safe environment for all types of players. Not to mention, his idea of not speaking up, opens up a whole other can of worms.

    1. I agree. Like you said there are vast differences in competence among dealers. I’ve seen directors hover around new dealers that are prone to making mistakes so that table will run smoother. Early in a tournament, players are more than willing to call out a mishandled pot, but once it gets to the bubble, it is unreasonable to expect people to say something to their detriment. Daniel is hypocritical when he says he keeps his mouth shut in cash games but would say something in a tournament.

  10. its funny that Terrence is saying that there should be a tournament director in the FINAL TABLE and Daniel starts talking about side tables and unfair advantage 😂

  11. So very sad to watch the HSP episode and hear Gabe announce his retirement. Such a class act. I remember Mista Kotta so clearly, guess I am that old. If you’re reading this Mr. Kaplan, please come back, you’d be welcome.

  12. In relation to the Rosvodov error, in golf if a player fouled their ball before the shot, they would be obliged to report it, as there are so many cameras. Similarly in snooker players call foul on themselves in they foul the cueball, which is considered sportsman like. after all if nobody called foul on themselves while addressing the cueballl, it would be a very unruly sport.

  13. Usually I agree with Daniel, but not about the tournament director fixing something they see is wrong. The fact that there is a feature table period… it is not the same. period. I do think they should endeavor to make them as similar as possible, but if the TD is standing there at ANY table, feature or not, they should fix any problem they see. Done deal.

  14. If Daniel, for one reason or another, ever stopped playing playing poker, he could always become an actor. He’s just got that “something” that makes him entertaining to watch.

  15. I love Gabe Kaplan, but I am glad that Nick Shulman got the nod. I love his commentary and have for years.

  16. Whether or not you like it, the production, the reporter, the masseuse, and any one else with access to the table is a part of the game. The goal is the integrity of the game. Anyone who sees an incorrect action should 100% correct it immediately to secure the integrity of the game. To say otherwise is being complicit in an act of cheating as far as I’m concerned. The player should absolutely read their own hand however if they are face up the hands read themselves. I cannot believe anyone feels otherwise. I’m willing to bet everything that several players at the table realized what happened and they cheated because of their own greed. It’s the same way for professional sports games that have replay when they are on tv and not when the games weren’t televised. I am appalled that professional players especially of Daniels caliber and influence are not only ok with, but advocating for a complete integrity violation of the game. It’s truly disgusting.

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